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Yin/Yang not engendering one another


I posted previously about a strange reaction I was having after acupuncture treatments. Eventually, my acupuncturist said she felt I had a less common underlying problem where yin and yang do not engender one another - they do not properly turn into one another. When she started treating for this root issue, I almost instantly began to experience improvements in the symptoms I had been experiencing and was thrilled with the progress we were making.

Unfortunately, my acupuncturist passed away suddenly and unexpectedly just after Christmas. Her clinic was a solo practice and I although they referred patients to a new practitioner, the new practitioner is too far for me to drive. So I am between practitioners.

I am nervous about reestablishing care because I feel I don't understand much about what we were working on. I'm sure I don't need to understand everything - I can share what I remember her telling me and my symptoms and issues and hopefully the new practitioner will be versed in that issue. However, I'd like to know more for my own sake and I also know my acupuncturist said it was quite uncommon and she had started to do some research on the issue because she said although it's covered while in school it's almost never seen in real life.

Can you give me any information about this particular issue in TCM re yin and yang do not properly engender one another? Can you point me to any resources or articles I could read so I could learn more? Also, do you have any suggestions for how I can best commiunicate with a new acupuncturist so I talk most effectively about the ground my prior acupuncturist and I were covering?


There are a range of ways to treat issues within Chinese Medicine so carrying a "diagnosis" from one practitioner to another may not be a good idea. I would recommend you of course explain your history with acupuncture, etc. but find a practitioner you trust and let him/her do their job. As your results were arguably somewhat limited until the practitioner came up with a new diagnosis/protocol, a new practitioner may be spot on from the very beginning. Often fresh eyes, or at least different approaches, lead to much better results in this field.


slightlycosmo, you have my heartfelt sympathy, because you really do have a problem. i do not agree with chad dupuis. patients have histories, no matter what the medical system, and your history should be able to follow you to your next practitioner. if that can't happen, then you need to be able to tell your new practitioner about what did and didn't work in the past. you'll need a new practitioner who is able to listen to you, take in all that's there, your current symptoms and your history, as well as your experience and fears, and take you through this transition well enough to build on what your last healer finally discovered. this is what you need and are paying for. don't settle for anything less. i'm in a similar position right now, and in my over 20 years and many moves, it's not the first time. from experience: it's not so much the exactness of your questions as that person's ability to listen. don't mistake effusive sympathy for skill. don't settle for anyone who promises magic or who engages in any other kind of bravado. don't go with anyone who makes you feel uncomfortable or that you can't say you've been through a difficult time and you're scared. you're not a beginner in this process, and you shouldn't be treated like one. just as in the mainstream medical system, there are good ones and bad ones, there are those who take what they've studied and patiently, carefully build on it, and there are those who get reckless. there are those who really keep learning and those who go to sleep at the wheel, do well with the simple things, and sweet-talk their way through the rest. humans are humans, no matter which part of the healthcare system they work in. gravitating towards the eastern side is no guarantee of morallity, just as getting through the medical-school system is no guarantee of quality. i wish you well.


I don't think we disagree at all and I don't want my posts to be taken the wrong way. I do say, "I would recommend you of course explain your history with acupuncture, etc. but find a practitioner you trust and let him/her do their job." And you say, "tell your new practitioner about what did and didn't work in the past". Not sure where the disagreement is... The important part of my comment, however, is that diagnoses in Chinese Medicine do not transfer well in many cases from patient to patient. This is important from a practitioners perspective. It has nothing to do with listening, or not listening to, your patient. It is the case for many reasons with a major one being that there are different styles of acupuncture. To a Japanese style practitioner, for example, this diagnosis would be near meaningless as it would be to many others. Yet, their treatment methodology may prove extremely beneficial to you nonetheless. Explaining your history, what worked and what didn't is good but looking for an exact replica of your previous practitioner is not realistic or even necessarily beneficial.

What you don't know about the poster and what I was accomodating for in my response is that there are many other posts throughout the site about previous experiences with acupuncture and this practitioner in particular - which brings into question the quality of treatments she was receiving.

My point as it is stated is to explain your history, etc. but know that a practitioner may not use the same terminology or even view your history the same way and you should trust that process. More precisely use -your- personal terms to describe your symptoms, emotions, etc. not those of your previous practitioner(s), or relatively vague Chinese Medicine terms you have learned along the way. Then let your practitioner translate that according to his/her training. Chinese Medicine is not western medicine, so terms and techniques do not always translate from practitioner to practitioner. This is both the beauty and the complexity of the medicine. The hope or trust in this process is that you will find someone even better who can remedy these issues that have taken so long to respond. In short do not assume that switching practitioners is a bad thing, it could very well work out in your favor.


Any thoughts on how to deal with this via acupuncture?



Yin and Yang not engendering each other is more of a concept than a diagnosis. It speaks to a series of events that shows up when people essentially have mixed patterns. The only way to treat this is to fully understand all of the patients signs and symptoms and watch them closely over a short period of time (how they react to treatments that is). Your treatments will more than likely have to vary over time - this to help one pattern balance, then the other, then back to the first one until a clear root imbalance emerges. Then you can treat the root until all symptoms are alleviated.

You may also see this listed as yin and yang failing to communicate (or unable to communicate). And in more specific patterns such as HT and KD failing to communicate where you have Yin Deficiency and Heart Fire appearing at the same time - as an example. Another mixed pattern listed as "qi perversion" can arise from a mix of excesses and deficiencies as well.

There are no hard rules with these situations, just careful observation, continual re-evaluation of the "diagnosis" and generally conservative point selections. Use of the extraordinary vessel points are often useful in these more complicated patterns. In this case, however, we do not have enough information to offer anything more definitive.

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