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Surgery and meridians


#1

hello

i'm a physical therapist working in France in a post-operative rehabilitation facility (mostly arthroplasties - knee + hip, and fractures). i've recently became interested in TCM and would like to ask you a question: does surgery disrupt the meridians in any way? and if yes, how long does it take them to 'heal by themselves' (without any energy work or herbs; jsut could all painkillers and western type physical therapy)?

thanks,

Claudiu


Scar on Conception Vessel
#2

We have had this and very similar discussions multiple times on the site. For one regarding tatoos you can read my reply here. My answer to your question is very similar. The main point is to remember both that the meridians are not just on the skin, they have have various depths to them and more internal channels as well. The external skin disruption from surgery, I believe, is quite minimal. The internal changes, however, require proper treatment with acupuncture and/or herbal medicine to best facilitate healing and avoid amounts of scar tissue.


#3

Surgery is different from Tatoo, it will permanent damage the meridians&#39 energy flow. the only way of treatment is use blood vessel system instead of meridian system, because in TCM, the Blood is the mother of Qi.


#4

thank you


so, feng mei, coudl you give me any suggestions how i can stimulate the blood, without needles (i have not taking TCm training, yet, and anyhow in france only MDs can practice acupuncture). coudl this stimulation be achieved by acupresure on certain points around the site of surgery or at distance?



thanks


#5

To active blood cycle, use massage tuina is a good way. There are not only the 12 meridian system on human body, there are also secondary meridians system such as 12 meridian branches system with muscle tendon and skin system, those are connected by very small blood vessels. use herbal wine tuina can active local blood circulation, move the blood stasis, relieve local pain and rebuild new balance of local Qi and Blood.


#6

The correct theoretical answer to your question would depend entirely on the persons overall health and TCM pattern from a Chinese perspective and then what surgery they had. As always proper diagnosis is key as opposed to fixed treatment protocols. Feng&#39s answer and the later part of mine, however, are the correct principles - you resolve blood stagnation and build the qi and blood. To do this without needles, as a fully trained acupuncturist moxabustion, herbal wine, tuina, etc. can be used. These should not be used, however, without at least diagnosis and direction from a trained professional who has physically seen the patient. From an energy healing perspective, Tong Ren Therapy can be used to facilitate healing and then the distance is a non-issue. You can read more about that approach on our site. With Tong Ren, it would matter somewhat on the surgery they had and their health, but general areas to work would the huatuo of T1,T2 and T3 which stimulate the bone marrow, the thymus, and the lung/lymph respectively - collectively the immune system, the huatuo of T7 which stimulates the blood and affects blood conditions overall, but circulation specifically in the lower abdomen and lower part of the body. Then work the areas related to the surgery and around the general incisions.


#7

thank you very much for your answers.


#8

Like a gynecologist-surgeon I can confirm You that any type of surgery permanent demages the meridian&#39s routes end energy flow . Usually , we ( Homeopaths Homotoxycologists ) use this protocol : after the operation , about 40-60 days after , we shall infiltrate the edges with littles subdermical injections of Graphites Homaccord Heel , twice a week for six weeks.Also in alternative it&#39s possible oral therapy with Graphites 5 CH , 4 globules once a day about at 6-7 o&#39clock , everyday for six weeks. The treatment will repair the meridian&#39s routes , this treatmente is full experiences -based in many years and confirmed with Electro-Interstitial-Scan or Electro-Agopuntura-sec. Voll (EAV).


Best Wishes for an Happy New Year !







#9

When you say "Like a gynecologist-surgeon I can confirm You that any type of surgery permanent demages the meridian&#39s routes end energy flow" - what type of truly scientific statement can you provide to "confirm" this. I, for one, completely disagree with this statement. My argument against this type of thinking is two fold:


1) If this were true, people following a surgery would have a host of problems internally and/or along the route of the meridian. While people may have a variety of health issues, and may have problems after the surgery there is nearly no evidence to support that this is because the meridians are "damaged" from surgical intervention. They are either pre-existing conditions or response to the surgical agents or procedures themselves and can (and should) be treated as such.


2) The body is/makes the meridians, we don&#39t put it on them on top of the body as a secondary device. Because of this the body is alive and can modify, repair and redirect at will. A scar or internal scar tissue is not going to permanently create problems. Having this view is offering a very low potential to the healing properties inherent in the body. Alternative practitioners will often over support this healing potential in some facets but then jump to conclusions about a scar saying it wrecks the body for good - it simply doesn&#39t hold any scientific basis in truth, clinical evidence, or in any other facet....


Now before anyone misunderstands my viewpoint, surgery should be avoided, it certainly is not beneficial to the body, things should be treated properly before they get to that point if at all possible, but it is not a recipe for a life long suite of problems from "damaging" the meridian....


Treatment both before and after surgery can minimize many of the downsides of surgery and is recommended so I am not saying that nothing should be done, I just firmly disagree on clinical and scientific evidence that you are permanently damaging anything from surgery...


Until we can measure "qi", however, and proper studies are done to support a particular view this discussion does not have a definitive end. Common sense and clinical observation will tell you, however, that many, many people go through surgery just fine without any lasting changes or problems from their qi circulation...





#10

Dear Chad Dupuis ,

I think that knowledge is not made of separate sections , compartmentalized ,

and the therapist must open up new horizons for the Welfare of his patient .

Every day in the daily practice Chiropractors and Kinesiologists see "focal" scars ,

scars that affect posture, muscle tone and the flow of &#39energy along the meridians

Every muscle corresponds to a meridian and similarly each meridian corresponds

to a muscle ( Goodhearth )

Usually, women with cesarean section have blocked the basin with an alteration in energy

up – down for involvement of CV , Ren Mai

In the same way children with scars under the chin may have energy problems.

A vertical scar enables the meridian a bypass right or left but the worst is that

cross the course of the meridian.

The meridian is recognized not only on the basis of anatomical but also functional bases as a low impedance path of the connective and it is possible to measure with Electrodermal Screening.

A scar may block the flow of energy, can make it difficult or it can be completely indifferent

and only clinician is to understand what happens.

Much literature has been written on this topic ( scars and Meridians ) :

G.J.Goodhearth , Applied Kinesiology , Detroit 1958 , Detroit 1973 , 1979 , 1980

Louis Nahmani , Kinesiology Theory and Pratice , Comedent 1991

Mrejen D. , Mesotherapie ponctuelle systematisee , Mediffusion , Paris 1987

Dujany Ruggero , Teoria e impiego pratico della Kinesiologia Applicata , Tecniche Nuove 1990


“Life is full of endless reasons that were never experienced in” Leonardo da Vinci


#11

I would like to join this discusion. My main reason for this is because i am planing of performing a cosmetic ear surgery &#39&#39in the future&#39&#39.


I am aware that this is a selective surgery and i am still not 100% convinced whethere i should do it, but for now lets say i do proceed with it. Since i am in the phase of exploring TCM i know that ears are very delicate organs which are connected to the rest of the body in a very intimate way. In cosmetic ear surgery the front side of the ear (which is packed with points) isn&#39t touch, only the rear side where cartilage meets the soft end on the ear, where the natural arc/bow exists. I am not sure if any acu points exist there? If yes, feel free to tell me.



The incision is rather small, since in the end it is an ear, it can&#39t be deep even if somebody wanted it to be. A small scar oftenly remains on the back side which isn&#39t visible unless the ear itself is folded.


A lot of people had cosmetic ear surgeries, Brad Pitt the famous actor had it so have many others which seem in a very good condition right now, also a vast number of young childer undergoo this &#39&#39routine&#39&#39 surgery without any effect later on.




Here is where i cross the line-if you don&#39t like your ears, they are probably creating a sort of a negative energy themselves and if after the surgery you feel better, happier, can the scars damage your health?



What happens if you cut your hand and have a huge scar on it? The hand is also a part of micro acupunture and is connected to entire body? Does this mean if you cut your hand deep you can say goodbye to normal life becaue you will have multiple ilnesses?



What happens to people who lose their hand,arm, feet, leg, EAR (as Mike Tyson bite the ear of Evander Holyfield) ?



God and mother nature gave us an ability to regenerate our selves to a certain degree, since it is not perfect we are left with scars (unlike say Salamanders whos regenerative abilities are near perfect, they can even repair a heart that is cut in half)



To continue, God and mother nather also gave us numerous energy points which are located trought the body. Wouldn&#39t it be cruel to let a small scar destroy a body in a slow fashion just because it is on an energy point?



I am guessing this is way we have many micro puncture as well as macro puncture points on our body. We should realise that the intelegence of our body is imense and i agree it can repear and shape itself to save such an important system as energy meridians.



Have any of the practicioners here ever encountered a pacient who had cosmetic ear surgery? Have you ever checked their ears with acu point locators etc?



If someone would like to add something, please..


#12

I am definitely upset with any pragmatic allopathic who speculates

that the ancient Tao or (nature’s way) is not transcendental and divine

and is subjected to the gross body&#39s superficial epithelia membrane density.

It is my experience from Qi-gong is that Chi is more like water-a flooding

of the whole body with energies. and opening a single channel only serves

to allow it to reenter into that energy-flood like experience.

And as I understand&#39 that the organ’s 12 meridians & the body&#39s eight energy vessels are all subject to disconnect slowdowns, overbuild or other alterations,

with or with out surgeries. Acording to (TCM)-

The root of, or our good health formula .= We need Love 1st. Chi next, then pure flowing blood next, we need our practice so that our body stays strong and subtle/flexible, next the-mind is stable/calm & then the heart will open’ and then the organs will become receptive and more responsive.

However, love is the mother of Chi, which commands cleanses and moves the blood”

and they exists in near equal portions within the body.

“Chi-derives from/is attracted to the (love within the heart) no love no Chi. Hence Chi is the divine aspect of our energy system. With Chi everything flourishes with out Chi everything dies.” Again if the Chi were being blocked the body would be dyeing!


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