Non respondant to acupuncture despite 5 practitioners
forum post
Non respondant to acupuncture despite 5 practitioners
Published on 02-09-2009
"iwinc" - this is their first post.
I have been previously to 5 different acupuncture practitioners-one chinese professor,one korean acupuncturist,2 chinese female practitioners amd one with many testimonies(also doing chinese acupuncture).With all 5 i had no response whatsoever,no improvement and couldnt feel any sensations during acupuncture at all apart from localised pain from the needles.Can anyone tell me does this signify anything/indicate a type of pattern/condition?
I am very weak and my guess would be very qi and blood deficient.My tongue is reddish-maybe slightly purple too,has a redder tip, a white coating,paler at the sides and deep crack down the middle
Thankyou
This post has the following associations:
Acupoints: ex tian dong
Comments / Discussions:
comment by "ChadD" (acupuncturist)
on Feb 2009
It would be difficult to offer any advice other than sheer speculation without more information. Leaving out any Chinese diagnostic signs, what is your actual medical condition(s)? Do you have a western diagnosis of some kind? Also, how many times did you see each of these practitioners (once or twice, or more often)? In complicated medical cases a few treatments will often accomplish very little, so if you went from practitioner to practitioner without giving it much of a chance to work relative to your condition then you might expect a result like this. Also are you currently on any medications - western or chinese herbs?
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comment by "iwinc"
on Feb 2009
Dear Chad,
I had previously seen many western doctor but none of them were able to help either.I tried approximately 50 medications from different classes-mainly psychiatric and neurological- without any success( the medications have been out of my system for approximately 6 months)
My symptoms are very complicated and severe.I have continual episodes of VERY strong pulsating in the arteries of my head and feet and at the same time spontaneously start crying(but not as in being emotional as in fron the feelings but more like a pathological brain change if that makes sense),horror and darkness feelings,rage,hoorible thought/feeling-all like being crazy basically,shaking in the head,strange "energy" moving in my stomach,tingling feet and or hands,vibrating in feet,sometimes muscle twitches,sometimes headaches,sometimes spontaneously start sweating or feel chills/shivers-but have no fever on thermometer.Sometimes my head will even make spontaneous movements like im possessed and ill be almost screaming.At the end of these episodes ill usually have grumbling/sounds in my stomach signalling the end but its not digestion related-my digestion is fine,no noises,no bloating etc.
The episodes happen day and night continuously one after another and disturb my sleep too.Tests shown i had hypometabolism of both temporal lobes on a PET scan but doctors either said they didnt know what it meant or dismissed it.Also a test showed 1hypoecholic plaque in carotid arteries with mild narrowing im 27 but the doctor said everyone my age would have mild narrowing and that it wouldnt cause these symptoms.
I ve also tried western herbs but they didnt work either.Two Tcm practitioners thought it was liver yang rising and gave me herbs for them but with no effect.I dont think its liver yang rising because the anger outbursts are without control/neurological from the brain and not the fury/anger that people might feel rising-which is anger emotion as opposed to brain dysfunction.
I went to most of the practitioners approximately 6-8 times and gave the herbs a good chance.
Im currently taking no medications but i started taking ginseng approx 1 week ago-not because i think it will stop the symptoms but because of the energy depletion i feel from having this 24 hours a day and i also take a drink called something like supergreens for vitamins from green vegetables.
My symptoms have been happening for a long time and their extremely severe.
Approximately 1 half years ago a TCM prac suggested i have phlegm all in my body and rising to my head and that it was causing my symptoms.At the time i dismissed it and thought sarcastically "yeah right phlegm can make you crazy" and also i had no phlegm or cough but practitioner explained invisible phlegm but i still thought that isnt possible.Anyway the last 5 days i decided to try a phlegm product just to see-the tablets are er chen wan,as i do feel i have phlegm stuck i chest etc but i dont think it could cause such horrific symptoms and also i have no cough ever but i clear my throat constantly and and very thirsty at night.Anyway so yesterday after about 4 days of taking it i started to have a small dry cough so i started to hit my chest to try to break up phlegm if any and then(this will sound weird) spontaneously my hand felt moved to start hitting my stomach and throat and head,face near jaw area,back of neck and my stomach started gurgling like i feel it was relaesing and going into my stomach.It sounds crazy but is it possible that you can actually have phlegm in your head?How would it get there?So i now feel i do have stuck phlegm all along the spine on my back and in my stomach and head etc-but could it cause such severe symptoms or is it additional problem due to the stress/bodily dysfunction caused by my original problem?Im not sure it hitting my head and chest etc was a good idea now to release the phlegm because now i have a headache-not from hitting but from the phlegm starting to make some movement and now that its going into my stomach-is that a good idea?where does it go then?Will it het stuck in my stomach because arn't i meant to cough it up somehow to release it?Also i noticed today i had a bit of reflux/acid regurgitation which i have never had in my life and also a bit of gas which i never have either.I know you cant diagnose etc but I'd appreciate your input
Sorry for the length
thankyou
I forgot to mention that after hitting the areas trying to move the phlegm i stated to feel a bit of burning sensations in my head etc-at first i thought maybe that was just my imagination but i think its not.Does that indicate a fire condition or is that irrelevant?Also by the phlegm(i think) now going into my stomach/digestion/gurgling sound will that then make stomach heat or anyother condition?Should i maybe consider taking an additional remedy or just leave as it?
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comment by "ChadD" (acupuncturist)
on Feb 2009
Just another quick question before I offer some advice - do you currently practice any meditation, qi gong, tai chi, yoga, etc.? If so, what and how much....
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comment by "iwinc"
on Feb 2009
No im a christian so meditation,qigong and yoga im not real comfortable to do any of those.I I just do some basic exercises at home like stretching and aerobics
Thanks
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comment by "ChadD" (acupuncturist)
on Feb 2009
Ok. First I won't go into a tremendous amount of detail but you are doing yourself a large disservice by not looking into any variety of self-help tools because you feel they are contrary to Christianity. These are all natural medicines and natural techniques and have no religious underpinning whatsoever. Meditation and Tai Chi, for example, have been shown time and time again in western oriented clinical studies to improve a persons psychological state and any number of health issues (cardiovascular, endocrine, nervous system), etc. While meditation is used in buddhist and taoist circles (as well as others) it is ultimately not a religous activity per se, but a science of changing your mind. Studies have shown you can physically change the size of certain areas of your brain related to our psychological states. This is not religion, it is science. You should read my article entitled "Is Acupuncture Chinese?, A Pseudoscience?, A Religion?" Would hate for you to not improve health wise because of strongly misguided views on the subject.
All that said, if you have really taken "50" different medications you need to stop trying them. 50 different medications over time would disrupt anyones system, particularly those meds in the psychiatric realm. If you are not better by now, obviously that is not your route, and you should strongly consider not pursuing that route anymore. Western examinations and tests are fine, but the medications without a conclusive diagnosis can be very dangerous. Along that same note, I would stop focusing on the Chinese diagnoses, they are meaningless in many ways except for the person treating you. The practitioners probably shouldn't even mention these with you as people get very strange ideas without understanding the conceptual meaning of what is being said. Phlegm, being an oft misunderstood concept. Phlegm is a concept, the same with Qi, Liver Stagnation, etc. Phlegm does not necessarily mean you have any mucus issues and liver qi stagnation does not necessarily mean there is anything wrong with your physical liver. So, just focus on whether or not you are improving better in terms that you can describe not what anyone else says.
So, now, on to what to do. You need to change your mind, significantly. Easier said than done, of course, but this point is important. Acupuncture and, perhaps herbal medicine as well, can help with this and meditation is crucial - in my opinion. Prayer would also be another very important aspect as a Christian. On the acupuncture front, with conditions as severe and undiagnosed as yours you should count on 3-6 months of treatment at least before you get a significant response from someone. You will need to see an acupuncturist who has experience in treating psychological issues and ideally someone from your own country (i.e. not Chinese). This is in no way to appear biased, but in my experience even if the treatment is technically correct, many Chinese do not understand our western psychosis, so someone native to your country -may- have a better way of communicating with you and ultimately treating you. With complex cases of this nature it needs to be broken down in a clear way so you can watch for progress which may be subtle at first - not your liver is clearer or you have less phlegm, but that you are actually better and you notice and you can describe how you are better. This is important as this is what starts to heal the mind - then the body can follow to some degree. My recommendation on points would be the same that we use to treat depression (this is not your condition per se, but the points would be the same) - they are described in the Tam Healing and Tong Ren Therapy For Depression article, along with an extra point that we use with massage/acupressure primarily called Tiandong. Tiandong and C2 and the area just behind the SCM tendon in your neck (sky window area) will open the circulation to your brain and should significantly change the pulsating sensations you experience. You can do massage, stretching, etc. to open up these areas and the rest of the points you can do acupressure on should you choose to do so. Our treatment points, however, are just a guideline and you should find a practitioner you trust and work with them over the long haul. I've treated people with very serious psychological and physical issues and it can take up to 6 months or a year to fully rectify these types of issues. The more you do on the self-help front will help, particularly as the acupuncture helps to alleviate the many symptoms.
With regards to meditation, a basic guide is found within my simple meditation techniques article. And this month I will be putting up an article related to the scientific health benefits of meditation so you should read that when it comes out to understand the scientific basis for these techniques, instead of their use in some religious circles.
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comment by "anon77311" (complementary)
on Feb 2009
If I may add as an Orthodox christian, meditation is ever present in our prayer life. Christianity has always been rooted in meditation or the art of cultivating stillness. The tradition of hesychasm or saying the "Jesus Prayer" whether it be its full form or just "Lord have mercy" becomes a mantra to weather one through emotional ups and downs or simply the seeking to know God in all you do.This is a tool not only for monastics, not is it vain repetition. It is a door to enter through. Please look beyond vocabulary differences and see the call within your own faith to "Be still and know I am God".
Western Christianity has lost this practice but it is a foundational part of a Christian's life, and it may be necessary to find help in practicing it. hence the name disciple - it is ok to be taught.
God Bless
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comment by "BlssdXenia"
on Feb 2009
Not to make you feel bad, but there is nothing to be scared of in mediatation, qigong or tai chi that would be denying Christ. It's worth saying a prayer and asking to be taught. You could continue in what you are doing with all your symptoms and no relief or try something new. There are no demons being invoked, why the fear?
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comment by "anon104635"
on Nov 2012
Just to add, I believe that for a Christian, the line must be drawn when a practice invokes spirits. Hence, qigong, tai chi, and others which are purely forms of physical exercise are okay with me. There are others which I won't name here that I avoid.
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