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Cfs, possibly yin fire?


Well I guess I’ll sum up a long story the best that I can. About 7 years ago I developed chronic gastritis after a very stressful situation with my girlfriend at the time. I had also been heavily smoking marijuana for 2 years and lost lot of weight. Quit when gastritis started.

I got some testing done and the doctor thought that h-pylori was the problem from my endoscopy. I was already holisticly minded at the time and I did not want to take a antibiotics so I managed it with herbal antimicrobial and demulcent herbs for the next few years. I was able to manage the pain and keep it at a minimum but I was never able to make it completely go away so about 2 years ago I decided that I would go ahead and try the antibiotic protocol for h pylori.

So I did the protocol and I actually caught the flu during the protocol and I got better from it after a week but then I caught it again I got better and then I caught it for a third time so I was sick for an entire month.

I had another endoscopy and stool testing after this that confirm that the H pylori was gone but my stomach felt worse. I also notice notice slowly month after month that my energy was getting lower. I wasn’t sure whether it was the antibiotics or the series of flu-like illness that triggered this but it got to the point where I could hardly do anything other than cook my meals and shower.

I also started with pain in my calves that slowly spread all around my body in a fibromyalgia kind of pain. It got to the point to where I can hardly sleep and do much of anything without a lot of pain and tiredness. and I ended up getting on an herbal protocol from an acupuncturist that got me back to the point to where I can cook my meals and go to the grocery store 1 time a week if someone drives me but I haven’t been able to get past this point.

I uploaded the two formulas that she had me on and I’ve been on the bottom modification for about 2 or 3 months. It dramatically helped the the Mind problems but didn’t help the stomach or fatigue or pain was moderately helped by the Yan hu suo .

Can’t tolerate bitter or hot herbs at all. Get too nervous and stimulated. I’ve seen in trials that Ren Shen Yang Rong Tang seems to have helped a lot of people I would appreciate any advice here as there is a language barrier with my current acupuncturist and I don’t think she wants to change everything


Before I get too far into the details. Let me make sure I understand correctly - so currently you have had this general range of symptoms for 7 years and you’ve done some prescribed herbal formulas for just the last couple months - or was it longer? And have you had acupuncture during this time and for what frequency - or only herbs?

You seem to mention that you are both improved enough to get out of the house, etc., and that your “mind problems” have improved (clarification on that would be helpful) - but you also mention that treatment “didn’t help the stomach or fatigue or pain was moderately helped”.

Generally speaking if you haven’t improved much after months of both acupuncture and herbal treatment and you have options, I would strongly recommend you find another practitioner.

While these types of layered issues can be problematic to completely resolve in that timeframe you would generally have seen more improvement.

Have you worked on your diet at all during this time? A general idea of what you eat daily would be very helpful. And where is the pain exactly, does it come and go, is it better after eating, worse after eating, unrelated?

What is your general body temperature? and even though you mention fatigue, do you stay asleep at night or are you restless?


Hello and thanks for your quick reply. I have been taking the herbs for probably about the last 6 or 7 months. I’ve been on these two formulas for about that much time. My symptoms for the first 5 years were only gastritis and I couldn’t tolerate bitter or hot foods because they would raise my nervous system and I would get jittery and it would I would feel hot. I still had energy to live a normal life and no pain for those first five years.

Then I got hit with a series of three flu-like episodes in one month and I also took antibiotics within that month for the H pylori tgat i thought may of been causing the gastritis,and it was only after that that my energy started going way down.

So as my energy went down I had just about all the testing done that you can imagine and it gradually kept going down. I started getting to where I realized I couldn’t handle stress cuz he even a stressful conversation would make my nervous system very shaky for a little while. My sleep at also started to deteriorate.

I went through a series where I was going several days without sleeping and that shift in my mind into panic and that is when I met my current acupuncturist who was able to remedy that with the current Formula but I still have trouble staying asleep for longer than 5 hours without occasionally taking antihistamines or benzo.

I have to pace myself a lot through my day and generally don’t stay on my feet longer than 5 or 10 minutes at a time. My body temperature is a little bit lower than normal probably 97.8 through 98.2 sometimes it is a little lower.


I should also mention that her main diagnosis for me was spleen Qi deficiency.

But I cannot tolerate even one pinch of ginger or a pinch of a bitter herb like gentian without raising the nervous system.

I generally only berries spinach white rice and tiny amounts of fish because meat is so hard to digest. Eat maybe 1600 cal a day.

Occasionally have heat in palms or soles. Warming flashes that come and go.


I forgot to answer your question regarding acupuncture. I received acupuncture for three or four treatments and I had to stop because it wasn’t tolerated very well only in a couple certain spots. I had considered seeing other acupuncturist in the area but there are none within an hour from me that are good with herbs. She is the only one I found that compounds her own herbs but she does not speak very much English at all.


I also forgot to answer your last question. It is more of a post exertional fatigue, classic of CFS. The wired but tired type. I have to take quite a lot of supplements to initiate sleep but it’s very difficult to sleep longer than 5 or 6 hours. During the day I have to do things in very short spurts because if I push myself too far then my mind will get to stimulated a little vertigo and my muscles ache more etc etc.

To put it in perspective. I can’t do a load of dishes because it’s too straining. Have to do 1 at a time as I use them.


I don’t know where you live, but I would strongly consider seeing another practitioner and I wouldn’t put too much on the benefits of herbal compounding. I know that sounds like a great thing, and it can be in certain cases, but that weighed against a practitioner who knows acupuncture extremely well (some herbalists don’t) and that you can communicate well with seems like a unnecessarily large trade-off.

The reality is you probably need to be taking nothing, herbs, supplements, etc. After what your body has already been through the messaging systems are very confused - this is in part why you have such strong reactions. What you need, then, is to minimize all of this messaging to let it reset to a degree (so to speak).

A very good acupuncturist should be able to help you more quickly, that along with a good diet, ideally some meditation and/or qi gong, and once you are feeling well enough very mild exercise (i.e. walking). I’m guessing that you feel you didn’t tolerate the acupuncture because the practitioner used too strong of techniques. Folks in your situation take a certain skill level and adjustment of techniques that not every practitioner can do. Ideally, someone who practices Japanese acupuncture may be your best bet but they are harder to find. Failing that someone who has experience with these conditions, a relatively gentle/even needling technique, and that you can talk in detail with will very likely help you the most.

From my read on it, what you have should not be particularly difficult to move in a far more positive direction and given the time frame that you’ve already given you should be much further along than you are in my opinion. It’s no judgement against your current practitioner, but this is as much as art form as it is a science and there are many approaches to take that not everyone is well versed in.


Thank you very much for your reply and I have located someone a little bit closer that I am starting work with on Tuesday. We’ve had one meeting so far but he didn’t have the right formulas that he thought I needed so I’m meeting Tuesday to get them. He’s mixing Lian po Yin with six gentlemen decoction and tian wang bu xin dan. Believes I have dampness and yin def heat. Acu as well of course.


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