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Any suggestions on how to work on own back points?



I am looking for suggestions on alternative ways to work on my own back points. I give myself acupuncutre treatments on all the front points, and would like to be able to work on my backpoints

(especially Du-4 and bladder points on the back)

......... Someone suggested Qi Qong excersices on back points yesterday, which I will look more into, and I also saw a clip on a product called "Life Wave Patch", but I am not sure if it's effective, and to be honest it looks pretty expensive....

So can anyone else suggest any other ways to work on ones own back points besides just rolling on the ground or seeing another acupuncturist? :-)



I&#39ve expressed this in other posts on the forum but I am generally not a huge fan of trying to treat yourself. I think you can learn so much from allowing others to help you - about yourself, about other approaches within Chinese Medicine - that receiving acupuncture from others should be looked at as almost a necessity instead of a luxury or a drudgery. I firmly believe you will be a much better practitioner in the long run from these explorations.

That said, using the correct points on the front of the body makes using any shu or jiaji points unnecessary. That is to say there is little to nothing in my mind that you cannot accomplish one way or another with proper point selection when you are limited to the front of the body. Besides, needling your back would be dangerous to say the least and the tension it would create to try to do so would be counterproductive at best.

What is it that you are trying to treat? What have you tried and why do you feel it isn&#39t working?


Well, I am treating sexual dysfunction, and the most effective combo has been Ren-4, Du-4(Moxa) and UB-23s

I have tried Ren-4 on it&#39s own and have not acheived same results. I have also tried a few KI and HE points that have not given me same results. (The exact points were KI3 , KI6, HE-3 and HE-7)

I still use KI-3 and HE-7 but only because they improve my sleep and help harmonize the Kidney and Heart in my case.

Also my DU-4 point is always very sore.(much more than any other point in my body)



What is your overall diagnosis and what supporting signs (tongue, pulse, etc.) do you have for this? Also, what are your symptoms more exactly - erectile dysfunction, low libido, premature ejaculation.... any of all of these? What other health issues do you have? Fatigue, night sweats, coldness/warmness, insomnia, anxiety, weak back, weak knees?

Limiting your treatments to point to condition protocols is not how Chinese Medicine works which is likely a part of your overall lack of success in treatment. Once we get a clear diagnosis we can make more appropriate point protocols for you.


Keep a galf ball or two near the bed Stand & roll on top of them

use it to massage palms of hands & feet are 4 of the 6 (main Qi gates)

Keep the 8 (extra ordinary Vessels) fully Charged because they maintain balance in the Organ&#39s river Like channels. Keep the body subtle limber and resilient. Self massage relax Head & neck the heart will open Chi will inter & the Organs will thrive it from the East!

Good luckW/that&#39 self needling indeed! Did He Say that?...


I already figured it out.. not too difficult!


What exactly did you "figure out" and what did you do? It will be very helpful for other readers of this forum thread to know what worked for you....


First of all, I don&#39t recommend any of the readers to follow what I am doing, because I am not a licensed acupuncturist!

What I did was simple; I grabbed a piece of paper, and draw a line in the middle. Then I measured 1.5 cun lateral to the left and right of that line and draw 2 more lines, Obviously, the middle line represents the location of DU-4 and the 2 side lines for UB23(s).

Then I locate DU-4 (by locating the 2nd lumbar vertebra) and needle it and then I use the piece of paper to help me locate the UB-23s general area, and then I locate the exact area by feeling tenderness... I find it that when I can locate the point precisely, needling it is not so much a problem... Once I am sure of the spot, I can reach over and do it just fine...


Agree with the post above with regards self treatment, particularly if you aren&#39t qualified/eperienced. I&#39ve actually seen some unpleasant results of this in the past. If your reluctance to seeing a practitioner is due to a reluctance to discuss sexual matters I can assure you that these matters are frequently discussed in clinic so should not be an issue for practitioners.

Having said that, if you won&#39t see a practioner have you considered cupping? New plastic kits are quite inexpensive and have a tube to facilitate self cupping. Mild cupping of BL23 would have some of the same effect as needling. Again, would be safer and more effective to have someone do this for you..

Just a note re needling your own back - the location is important as is the depth and the angle of the needle - really would be safest done by someone qualified.


Hi Andrew,

Thank you for the idea of cupping. I had not thought about that, and I will definitely check it out. As far as reluctance to seeing a practitioner, I should say that I have been seeing practitioners for at least 10 years now, and I have seen 6-7 of them (3 of which are college professors) and 1 who is a world known herbalist (Shall remain nameless)... I have also been studying on my own for the last 6 years either by reading books or asking the doctors/professors every time I have gone to see them (sometimes twice a week) so you can imagine I have accumulated some knowledge(enough to do what I am doing). Unfortunately, my experience with doctors has not been satisfactory.

My problem is really complex in a sense that I have 3-4 patterns going on at the same time, What I had mentioned on this post regarding needling UB-23&#39s is just a part of the 4 patterns (Kidney Yang deficiency and Bladder Deficiency).. I am also dealing with Liver Blood deficiency(which is causing liver yang rising,and lung/large intestine dryness ), Liver Qi stagnation, and Gallbladder Damp/heat, .

I have been treating myself for the last 2 months and my life has changed for ever. The conclusion that I have come up with as to why I am doing so much better on my own is simply because I am able to give myself 1-2 treatments a day and that&#39s what&#39s required in my case. And I am sure you can imagine going to see a practitioner twice a day is impossible.

I even signed up to go to a TCM school because one of the professors I was seeing kept encouraging me to go. He always said to me that I know more than his 2nd year students! but due to my job and needing to make a living and supporting myself I did not follow through with TMC school.

Anyways, thanks for your idea of cupping, and sorry about my long explanation, I just didn&#39t want people to read this and think they can do this as I am... again I have been studying on my own pretty seriously for 6 years now. I have also spent over $10k-$15k on practitioner visitations........ What is so exciting is 10 years ago, according to western medicine, I needed to be on ADHD, Bipolar and Depression medication.. I am so thankful that I can manage my life with a few needles a day and no medication!


Given the above perhaps Qi Gong would be a good adjunct to your existing treatment..


Sorry, friend, but I don&#39t agree with self treating except if absolutely necessary. There are occasions, for example, first aid, where it is appropriate. Otherwise, as a general practice I just wouldn&#39t do it. Go to a good practitioner in your area if you possibly can, is my advice. Therefore I wouldn&#39t suggest any way of doing your own back points. Please find someone to treat you. Very best wishes.


Did you read everything I wrote?

I tried your suggestion and it did not work! sorry.....

One thing I forgot to mention is that I use only the 0.5" needle so there is practically no chance I can hurt myself, although by now I have given myself over 100 treatments so I can probably handel longer needles!


Dear Colleague

I&#39m not a fan of self-treatment except where it&#39s really necessary, for example in the case of first aid. I agree about the benefits of Qi Gong though. This is a wonderful way of working with the Qi and extremely beneficial to the health. Equally I would strongly recommend Tai Ji Quan. I wish you all the best.


Dear Colleague

I&#39m glad to hear you&#39re been helped so much by your self-treatment. I wondered though about suggesting another approach as well as Qi Gong and Tai Chi. Have you tried Five Element Acupuncture? There are many practitioners in the States. I won&#39t try and recommend anyone as it might not be appropriate and I don&#39t know where you&#39re based. I suggest this because it has a slightly different way of working with the whole person and it might just be helpful. And this is in no way a criticism of any other approach, I assure you. I&#39m just suggesting an alternative approach.

All the best


You know I have been trying to avoid saying the real reason why I was pushed to start doing my own treatment, because my goal for originally putting up this post was to ask for help, (And not complain).... but I decided to tell you today, because everyone seems to think I am being cheap, which is not true at all..I always feel best place one can spend their money is for their own health.....anyways, here is why:

The reason is because of the last practitioner I went to. He treated me for over 1 year.. once or twice a week... tried several chinese formulas too.... towards the end, as I was getting more and more knowledgeable, I reallized he was cheating me by treating me in a way that I would feel a tad bit better after each treatment, but my conditions would remain long term... this way I would always depend on him and continue going to him for ever!.... Once I realized this, I got so frustrated and upset that it drove me to do this.... And I feel better doing my own treatment.

Don&#39t get me wrong, the guy is an amazing acupunctrist, He is a professor, a book writer and a consultant to the biggest herb company in USA.. (Shall remain nameless) .... I did learn alot from him during each appointment, but not because he wanted to teach me, but because I kept asking questions... Anyways, it&#39s too bad he made his money by keeping the same clients come back.. Since this practitioner, I have had a bad taste in my mouth and LOST my TRUST, and decided to do this on my own and as I said, I have not felt this healty for a long time...

It&#39s sad, but in reality, there are many practitioners whose first goal is to make money and 2nd to heal... and I was unlucky or should I say lucky to meet one , because I now have so much knowledge that I would not have had if I had a good honest practitioner...

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