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Alternative to Rehmania Eight (non cloying)?



Is there a good alternative to Rehmannia 8 formula? I feel Rehmannia is not a good fit for my condition and looking for something that would go easier on my spleen dampness issues.

I see there is also a formula called ERZHI WAN. Is it safe to say that if I was to add Cinnamon and Aconite or Eucommia, I would essentially get similar action (perhaps a bit weaker on the Yin side?)

Thank you.


Basically while yin herbs can be cloying, ba wei di huang wan already has a few herbs in the formula which account for this. If it’s not a good fit, then the diagnosis is probably incorrect and you should go a different direction. Remember that trying to treat everything at once, rather than resolving in layers, will be problematic in most cases.


Hi Chad, it works OK but I wonder if it’s slowing some things. Basically, I’m going it at it from a direction 'liver invading stomach and cooling the fire gate" pattern and I have to enter either through one gate or the other but they are both locked because if I take the Cyperus Formula alone, I get an increase in those bed time chills (9am-12am) and can’t fall asleep but if I only do ba wei di huang wan then my liver and spleen dampness prevent any benefit so I have to warm the kidneys and move liver at the same time. What I try to do is a pyramid (as someone here suggested). At the base is spleen dampness formula wu ling san, then cyperus formula, then rehmannia eight on top. I’m doing pretty well so far and things are moving but colder and rainy weather is here and this prcipitates those chills so I have to jam in more kidney warming but worried about rehmannia impacting the already sluggish digestion. By the way, those chills seem to be coming from the liver meridian. Am I making any sense here? Thank you.


Yes, it makes a reasonable amount of sense. I guess where I see a possible issue is trying to figure out one formula that works universally. In my mind you will need small amounts of different formulas either switching back and forth day by day or week by week or small amounts at targeted parts during the day. Just as an example, ba we di huang wan in the am, small amount of spleen formulas with lunch or mid afternoon depending on the formula and then possibly something more mildly yin/shen calming in the evenings. And by small amounts, I mean fairly small, almost clinically insignificant amounts. In our sunten brand that we use - a normalish dose would be 2 capsules 3x/day - I might literally use 1 capsule in the AM of a particular formula, a couple in the afternoon and then 1 or more in the evening and may vary that from day to day. In some sense you are using these more as a homeopathic way (i.e. suggesting) than a western medicine way (i.e. forcing). By using light recommending doses instead of strong clinical doses you avoid many potential issues, particularly with complicated cases. It doesn’t always work, but I would say I find those approaches effective 80% of the time.


Good stuff, Chad. This is pretty much what I’m doing - small dosages. Good to hear you validate this method too. If I bump into any issues I’ll try to spread them out throughout the day, as you suggest. Main thing was to make sure that be we di huang wan won’t cause any further spleen dampness issues. If it does I’ll have to look for some less cloying yang warming formula. Thanks for advice!


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